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Saturday afternoon drinking

From Tom D

Monday, 23 April 2018

Town was heaving on Saturday. Its great to see so many people out and about, from residents to visitors to the Town. But we need (I think) to think a bit about balance.

Its great that the Shoulder of Mutton is doing so well. Its lovely to see people outside in the Square on their benches. But when the whole of the town square becomes an extension of the pub, that's not fair. Its not fair on the other businesses in the square, on local residents who find it a bit beery, on older visitors out for tea or cakes, or on children walking through on their way to the park.

So - it seems reasonable that we ask the Shoulder to keep an eye on this, and to make sure that its customers stay in their bit of the square. And if they don't, to put restrictions on their licence. And that we ask the same of the other pubs whose customers spread out across town when it gets really warm.

If I'm honest, I think that the big groups of people coming to drink in Hebden on a Saturday afternoon does us few favour's, and will start to impact on day trippers, residents families, small shops and cafes. But if they are coming, then recognising that, and agreeing a few reasonable restrictions, feels like a sensible way to retain some balance in our community.  

From Stephen Redfern

Tuesday, 24 April 2018

Why is it that the coffee shops have to pay for the (tightly enforced) area outside their shops but the shoulder of mutton uses the whole lot for free and is not enforced at all.

The council should address this or waive the fees for all the coffee shops in the square.

From Mark C

Thursday, 26 April 2018

Totally agree. 

The Old Gate is another problem. Even though it has outside seating area, there is often overspill on the grassed area opposite and even people drinking on the bridge.

Does Hebden have community police? Maybe they could stop this problem, or the council even.

From Sharon Slade

Friday, 27 April 2018

I completely agree with the above comments and would like to include the White Swan using the wavy steps, despite having a lovely garden, and the Railway using the Marina.

It saddens me that Hebden is losing it's charm in favour of 
drinkers. The pubs may be making lots of money but the shops don't benefit. Calderdale Council are responsible for issuing licences so they are the people to complain to.

From Tom D

Sunday, 29 April 2018

Could we have a response from local elected members? Would be good to know if this is recognised as an issue, whether something is in motion already, or what steps we can take.

Again it's not saying any of these places are bad. Just that they need to operate as part of a wider community.

From Julie C

Sunday, 29 April 2018

Can I suggest contacting Jae Campbell the local Neighbourhood Coordinator based at the Town Hall in Hebden. Tel 01422 26462  or email.

You could ask for it to be discussed at the Ward Forum perhaps, and you can go along and meet local police and councillors there. That is where the next local police objectives are set too. The last one was on 17th April, so there's still time before the next one. 

From Jez T

Sunday, 6 May 2018

I love a pint of cider or two in the sunshine. But even I have to say that the situation is out of control in the square. It's a bit edgy at times and ruins the atmosphere for everyone else. I really think the pub has to take some responsibility and keep drinkers closer to its door.

It's not their beer garden. It's our square. 

From C Marsden

Monday, 7 May 2018

Can the new locally elected councillors help with this?

From Jae Evans

Tuesday, 8 May 2018

Easy does it in Hebden - all well and good.  But I do take issue with drinkers slowly taking over the town. 

Drinkers walking up from the town, glasses in hand and back to the train station; taking over the square and the river steps or, sprawling outside from any pub and onto land, pavements and benches opposite - yes, it has become a problem, yes, it can be 'edgy' read: loud and intimidating.

Rubbish bins overflowing - yuk.

From Dave R

Thursday, 10 May 2018

I have had concerns around this matter for 2 years now. Whilst no one wants to remove the custom from the pubs of Hebden, (who, as we all know lost enough trade with the floods), there really does need to be some sort of order here.

The responsibility must surely lay with the landlords/pub staff. Glasses should not be removed from the immediate area, and this alone should be policed by staff who must come out to collect them.

The great beer garden in the square is unfair to other businesses. I see that Sauce is closing this weekend, hardly surprising given the rowdiness of the Square these days.

Why is there not a barrier around the Shoulder's outdoor area in the same way as the other businesses?

As other have said, The White Swan has also monopolised the wavy steps and outdoor seating, meaning toddlers feeding the ducks are subject to those 'beery men' and their often coarse language.

Hebden Bridge the great little town of shops is fast deteriorating into the town of pedestrianised pubs

From Paul D

Saturday, 12 May 2018

The last decade people have been railing against this consumerist, tourist dependent chocolate box culture. I was sat early evening with my family in a very nice local eaterie lately and my whole evening was ruined by drunks, loud, obnoxious day trippers. My bill was £130 and I won't eat there again. Perhaps they will. Or people like them will. I'm sure my family won't. We don't swear and don't drink in the daytime until everything we say comes out as a scream. It's a really nice place. Or was. 

This is the new economy. One off versus loyalty, local versus passing through. It's been over for at least 8 years. The tourist pound is relentless. The square is not somewhere a local family would walk through, there are drunks everywhere, to get anywhere requires a detour. Huge groups of swearing men outside the pubs, inside the pubs. Well done Calderdale. Let's exclude local families from our town. Ship in drunks. That's great isn't it? It's money.

From Anne H

Saturday, 12 May 2018

I think there are two issues here. 

Firstly, I don't think we should assume that the drunks are visitors to the town and the families are locals. I don't think there's any evidence for that. There were a lot of drunks around here before it became a tourist destination. And for a town with a lot of facilities for eating and drinking you can't say "but they are only for nice people who don't swear or drink too much"

Secondly, heavy drinking should be confined to licensed premises and the boundaries of these outside drinking areas should be better managed by the licensees and preferably policed, though I can't really see that happening when the police have bigger problems to deal with in other towns along the valley. I do think the local councillors and HB Partnership have a role to play in working with licensees and off licenses, to see that they have some responsibility here.

From Graham Barker

Saturday, 12 May 2018

This may be a large part of the reason for the visiting beer swillers - Hebden Bridge is on  the Calder Valley Ale Trail.

Ultra-responsible drinkers to a man no doubt, wouldn’t swear at a fly, etc. As they used to be on the TransPennine Real Ale Trail (Batley to Stalybridge) until it got badly out of hand. Paul D is right. It’s great business for the pubs, not so great for everyone else. Expect it to get steadily worse if the Colne Valley experience is ignored. 

From Nadine Waring

Saturday, 12 May 2018

As a hard working bar person (soon to be licensee), I can honestly say we do not value any rowdy Saturday drinkers. 

We strive to keep a pleasant, low key, friendly and peaceful atmosphere. We have huge support from our regular customers and many lovely, like minded visitors from all over the country. 

Saturday is very hard work.  We would welcome a regular walk by, say from a Community Support Officer. The hours between 3-7 in particular.

We would be happy to contribute!

From J Swift

Monday, 14 May 2018

The Colne Valley provides an awful warning of what can happen when 'Ale Trails' get out of hand.  There's been a serious problem with drunken crime and anti-social behaviour. Hebden Bridge really needs to ensure that these problems are not repeated in the Calder Valley.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to make it a condition of the licence for pubs that drinkers are kept within the curtilage of the premises?  If this was done, and there was evidence of breaches, presumably the licence could be revoked?  

It does seem somewhat peculiar that Calderdale were apparently prepared to go to quite extraordinary lengths to try to clear the lady protesting about Palestine from the Square, but seem supine in the face of drunken yobs who really are intimidating for other users of the area.

As others have said upthread, it would be nice if we could get a response here from local councillors

From Tom D

Monday, 21 May 2018

Another lovely weekend in the valley, that makes you feel glad (and blessed) to live here. This thread is all about balance- that we welcome visitors and businesses to the town, but that this needs to be balanced with the interests of residents & families of all types.

The Shoulder of Mutton again made the Square its own private beer garden. The thread seems to agree that this is unfair and unreasonable. So does this mean that they are ignoring requests from the town/ Calder Council? That they just don't give one? Or have they not been asked? Some clarity would be good.

The White Swan put tables and chairs out the front, and its customers wandered around the wavy steps. Again, have they bought a licence to use town as a beer garden, have they been asked to stop? Have they asked for a cafe forecourt licence on the street? Some clarity from Councillors would be good.

There were 3 Royd Ices vans parked up around town. The Traffic Warden said that they had all received parking tickets, but presumably when you are making that much money a £40 parking fine to pitch for a day is nothing- apart from the unfair impact on shops that pay their business rates and are losing trade. Presumably its easy for councillors to threaten a blanket ban on licences for Royd ices until they start to play fair too.

Lastly, its not reasonable for the young lad in front of me to be abused as he cycles past the drunk men in the park.  

I love beer. I love our town. I love our shops and community. I love living in a place that is so nice that people want to visit. I'm just asking for a bit of balance, a bit of awareness from licencees, and a bit of civic leadership please. Councillors?

From Paul Clarke

Tuesday, 22 May 2018

There is a balance here between local businesses making money and the need to ensure public safety.

What perplexes me is we rightly expect all the cafes in the square to have designated areas for their customers but the same rule doesn't seem to apply to pubs in this shared public space.

Last weekend there were plenty of drinkers outside the Shoulder holding glasses. So one question is given the clear safety issue why are they not being given plastic glasses to drink in a public space?

I think the answer is simple. Put a barrier where the tables are outside the Shoulder and if you buy a drink there then you can only drink in that space. It's exactly the same principle that applies to the cafes.

It would then be up to the pub to make sure that happens with appropriate support from the police if needed.

I also wandered past the White Swan and was surprised to see a pub with a beer garden plonking tables outside. Worse there were plenty of glasses around the duck steps that really needed to be cleared before they got smashed.

In fairness to the pubs there may be a absence of any clear guidance but if not then there needs to be some so the situation is fair for all our businesses who use our public spaces.

The obvious question is which authority - Town Council or Calderdale - is responsible for creating guidance. I'm not sure if it can be done but maybe a by-law prohibiting drinking on the Square except in defined areas might help?

From David Morby

Friday, 25 May 2018

The upside of developing an"Ale Trail" culture is that a few landlords make money from those coming in who have no interest in the area apart from that particular drinking session. The downside is that other retailers dip out, genuine tourists are put off coming and local people, including local drinkers don't come into town and go elsewhere at the weekend. This isn't a long term, sustainable approach to town planning. I think if other small towns which have gone down this road were asked, they would advise against, Marsden might be one to try.

From Stephen Ashley Redfern

Monday, 28 May 2018

It’s not just a Saturday problem any more. It’s most of the time.

I’m talking generally. The town center has lost its charm because the square is just noise, noise and more noise.

I now live in a beer garden/ football ground/ delusional busker entertainment centre (non amplified busking is fine).

The council is wholeheartedly the problem here with their “well it’s Hebden Bridge” attitude. Well it’s not. It’s their short sighted cash cow vision that will ultimately fail.

A couple of months ago I asked someone who works in the square about do they know about people (adults) using the window as a goal net and to my amazement the person said “Well, what can you do” gesturing a drinking action by parents.

I sense a bit of intimidation here.


From David Thompson

Wednesday, 30 May 2018

Kicking a football in the street is antisocial behaviour. It causes damage to property, is a danger to pedestrians and the noise..., the bump, bump, bump of a football connecting with a wall, door etc. disturbs people and is damaging to health. It is very difficult to stop once it has become established.

It is not illegal to play football in the street. The police will say they can do nothing unless they can point to a "No Ball Games" sign. The Council officers say to have a street designated as a no ball games area requires a special bylaw and is therefore too expensive to consider.

People who are troubled by football near their home would be well advised to cut their losses and move house. To kick a ball in the street is extremely irresponsible, but we will have to live with it.

From Leona T

Friday, 1 June 2018

If people are having problems with anti social behaviour or lairy drinkers there is always the option of contacting Calderdale Council Community Safety Wardens.  

Nice bunch of people who don't want to spoil anyone's fun but want it to be nice, and safe, for everyone.   

From Lisa S

Friday, 1 June 2018

Glad this problem is now on the forum for discussion. 

I complained last year about the drinkers in the square to the council. 

I was asked to photograph what I saw and record the time and email them to Stuart Frary at  stuart.frary@calderdale.gov.ukHe is the Licensing Enforcement Officer at Calderdale MBC
Licensing Unit. Telephone: 01422 288001

Can I suggest we all do this to report our concerns.  

From Rob Blake

Monday, 4 June 2018

 I went shopping in Hebden Bridge last Saturday afternoon (2nd June) with my wife and son.

I saw a group of people sitting and standing outside the Shoulder having a drink and everyone seemed calm and happy (I have photos!).

I noticed that the pub had put up some flags on a string to denote where their area stops and the square begins.

I spent around 20 minutes in the square listening to the (excellent) acoustic guitarist and saw no problems whatsoever.

I think the proprietors of the Shoulder deserve credit for taking this issue seriously and doing something about it.

From what I saw last Saturday, the pub had a positive effect on the atmosphere of the square and I shall be popping in for a pint myself one sunny Saturday in the near future.

From Tom D

Sunday, 17 June 2018

Update from Saturday 16th June. The Old Gate's Customers (I think c20 when i went past) sat alongside the river and on the bench on the bridge. The Shoulder of Mutton's (c20 too) had ignored the flagged drinking area and their customers were back using the square as their private/public beer garden. The White Swan's (c10) were again using the wavy steps as their beer garden (though the seats were not out the front this time.) So business as usual then.

I think that

1. There is a clear agreement in this thread that this is unreasonable and that it will have an impact on all of our other residents, visitors and businesses in time.

2. Our Town Council does not seem to care. And its disappointing not to hear from our Calderdale Councillor either. Does this say something about this forum being irrelevant? Are they doing things but not reporting them? Some feedback would have been great.

3. Maybe as new empowered consumers/citizens, our civic leaders and council are just becoming irrelevant and we need to do things for ourselves.

It struck me that this really is about business and businesses aim (and right) to make money. All 3 businesses make more money by using the towns civic space as a free extension of their pub. And nobody is stopping them. So why would they not?

So the best way to encourage them to change their behaviour, in the absence of any help from our councillors, is to challenge their business model a bit.

I'd suggest that we give them til the end of June. Then if the street drinking is still ongoing, we as residents use Tripadvisor and give them 1 star reviews, with appropriate comments demonstrating what we think of them as businesses and neighbours.

And at the same time we celebrate the pubs that are "good citizens" and give them positive reviews as well.

That way, we penalise the pubs that are not being good neighbours, and at the same time, reward the ones that are playing ball, by driving more customers to them instead. 

How does that sound?

From Anne H

Sunday, 17 June 2018

Have any of the people complaining that the councillors don't care actually contacted any councillors? This forum isn't a direct line to the council. The only way to find out if they are doing anything about the situation is to contact them. I don't know who that would be locally but at Calderdale, I should try licensing@calderdale.gov.uk 

From Kez Armitage

Sunday, 17 June 2018

Tom D makes a very important point about our locally elected councillors. 

I have always found it better to communicate with a Local Authority direct. Going via a councillor just adds an extra tier into the process with the resulting delays. They really can't do anything that we residents can't do. In fact, when I worked for a local authority we always gave priority to letters/ questions/ complaints from members of the public. 

There is no question that our councillors all read the posts on Hebweb. If any, for whatever reason, don't, then it raises many questions about their true interest in the community they purport to serve.

So why has no councillor replied to this major concern? Who knows, but sadly we can see their true colours shining through! And those colours represent apathy, disinterest, and a total lack of engagement with those who have elected them to post. Well at least they get their expenses!

Tom D is right. With the apparently effete councillors we have, the only answer is to brush them aside and do things for ourselves. Where that leads, only anyone can guess!

From Adrian Crowther

Monday, 18 June 2018

Not sure just how effective a "tripadviser" review would be to be honest. If i read a review stating "they let drinkers use public spaces" or similar it wouldn't put me off going !

From Mike S

Monday, 18 June 2018

Anne H - I have emailed Calderdale licensing as you suggest. I will let the forum know what response I get.

From Rory D

Monday, 18 June 2018

This is what I was sent when I raised it on 4 June. (See this web page).Something has obviously been going on behind the scenes. I got this email this morning. If I'm honest, I'm not totally sure what it means.

"Good morning

Thank you for your email regarding the ongoing issues with drinking off licensed premises in Hebden Bridge.

I have been liaising with our community wardens and also the police regarding this issue and the PSPO that is in place in Hebden Bridge and what can be done to try to prevent the issue .

Myself and the police have been working together regarding this issue of drinking off the licensed premises and although this is not licensable, myself and the police have visited the licensed premises in Hebden Bridge to remind them of the conditions of their licence and the ongoing issues/complaints that I am receiving.

Regarding the PSPO that is in place in Hebden Bridge, licensing do not have the authority to enforcement the PSPO and as such it is only enforceable by the Police and our Community Safety Wardens.

Calderdale Council Licensing Enforcement officers and our partners will however continue to monitor the situation and make regular visits to the licensed premises in Hebden Bridge.

I trust that this clarifies the council's position in this matter and I am therefore closing the complaint with no further action at this time.

Stuart Frary
Licensing Enforcement Officer
Calderdale MBC
Licensing Unit"

From J Swift

Monday, 18 June 2018

There is some useful information here

"If there are problems with a premises, you can ask for them to be reviewed if they relate to either:

  • the prevention of crime and disorder
  • the prevention of public nuisance
  • the protection of children from harm
  • public safety

Your request might be rejected if it’s trivial, is about an issue that’s been considered before or doesn’t relate to one of the above.

To ask for a review, write to:

the licensing authority (local council)
the licence holder
the ‘responsible authorities’ (details and addresses will be available from the licensing authority)

If your request for a review is accepted, the licensing authority will advertise this and ask for comments - people have 28 days to give them."

From Andrew Smith

Monday, 18 June 2018

Please see below an email from Calderdale's Licensing Enforcement Officer. From discussions with Mr Frary it seems that all the pubs are given off sales licences by default. This means that people can freely wander off the licensed premises with their drinks. It seems to me that there is no benefit whatsoever in granting pubs off sales licences, and that all the licences should be reviewed, and the off sales element revoked. The pubs could then be held accountable for their customers taking their drinks off the premises.

"Thank you for your email regarding the ongoing issues with drinking off licensed premises in Hebden Bridge.

I have been liaising with our community wardens and also the police regarding this issue and the PSPO that is in place in Hebden Bridge and what can be done to try to prevent the issue .

Myself and the police have been working together regarding this issue of drinking off the licensedpremises and although this is not licensable, myself and the police have visited the licensed premises in Hebden Bridge to remind them of the conditions of their licence and the ongoing issues/complaints that I am receiving.

Regarding the PSPO that is in place in Hebden Bridge, licensing do not have the authority to enforcement the PSPO and as such it is only enforceable by the Police and our Community Safety Wardens.

Calderdale Council Licensing Enforcement officers and our partners will however continue to monitor the situation and make regular visits to the licensed premises in Hebden Bridge.

I trust that this clarifies the council's position in this matter and I am therefore closing the complaint with no further action at this time.

Stuart Frary
Licensing Enforcement Officer
Calderdale MBC
Licensing Unit
Telephone: 01422 288001

Just received the following from our MP's office.

Further to my email below, I have now received a response from Derek Benn, which I copy below:

"Hi Sophie

Just so you are aware I and other colleagues have received a number of complaints of public drinking in Hebden Bridge within the last few weeks. One of the main issues being reported is the over spill from several pubs.  I know the Council’s Licensing team are engaging with local licensees to see what the issues are.

Also our Portfolio Holder is in the process of responding to a request on this issue from the Hebden Bridge Times so hopefully this might re-assure residents that the matter is being responded to.

We are also planning 3 days of partnership action in Hebden Bridge starting 28th June and finishing on the Saturday evening (30/6). This will include many council services such as our community wardens, licensing, safer cleaner greener and environment health working alongside Police, Health and Fire.  We have already identified the issue of public drinking as a priority for these 3 days of action."

Hope this gives some confidence.

I hope this offers some clarification and reassurances about the situation. Hopefully the 3 days of action will have some positive impact and will help with addressing the situation.

By all means come back to me if there is anything else I can assist with. 

Kind regards


Sophie Whittaker, Case Worker
Craig Whittaker MP

Serving the People of  Calder Valley
t : 01484 711 260   

Unit 7 (Upper Floor) Brookfoot Business Park, Elland Lane, Brighouse HD6 2SD

From Michael Prior

Tuesday, 19 June 2018

The licensing policy of Calderdale Council as explicitly stated includes:

The aim of this Licensing Policy is to promote the four licensing objectives
which are:

  • The Prevention of Crime and Disorder 
  • Public Safety
  • The Prevention of Public Nuisance
  • The Protection of Children from Harm

Each objective is of equal importance. There are no other statutory licensing objectives, so the promotion of the four objectives is a paramount consideration at all times.

The policy provides information and guidance to applicants and those making representations on the general considerations and approach that will be adopted by the licensing authority in making determinations under the Act and supports a number of other key aims and purposes which the licensing authority strives to implement. They include:

Protecting the public and local residents from crime, anti-social behaviour and noise nuisance caused by irresponsible licensed premises;

Giving the police and licensing authorities the powers they need to effectively manage and police the night time economy and take action against those premises that are causing problems;

Recognising the important role which pubs and other licensed premises play in our local communities by minimising the regulatory burden on business, encouraging innovation and supporting responsible premises;

Providing a regulatory framework for alcohol which reflects the needs of local communities and empowers local authorities to make and enforce decisions about the most appropriate licensing strategies for their local area; and

4 2.3 Encouraging greater community involvement in licensing decisions and giving local residents the opportunity to have their say regarding licensing decisions that may affect them.

Need one add more?

From the same Council document:

14.4 The licensing authority will properly investigate any complaints received. The views of local minorities will not be allowed to predominate over the general needs of the community or the rights of licensees unless those views are well founded on issues of concern that can be demonstrated.

Perhaps we can organise a properly-documented complaint which can then be "properly" "investigated" and the results published

From Andrew Smith

Tuesday, 19 June 2018

Here's my email to Stuart Frary of Calderdale Licensing and copied to  'ASB Unit'; 'Councillor JFenton-Glynn'; Jane Whittaker; 'Craig Whittaker'; 'Councillor Alison Miles'; 'Jae Campbell'; 'Councillor Dave Young'

Dear Stuart

Thank you for this email and for calling me the other day to discuss this matter.  You seem determined to close this complaint, and others like it, as I noticed from the HebWeb thread about Saturday afternoon drinking that you sent an identical response to Rory D. 

I am very surprised you are closing these complaints when you acknowledged that you had received a very high volume of similar complaints.

It seems part of the problem is that the default licences granted by Calderdale include an off sales licence, which effectively allows customers to leave the licensed premises with their drinks and wander freely around the town.  I see no benefit in granting off sales licences to pubs; there are plenty of shops that cater for off sales in Hebden Bridge.  I suggest that any future licences should not include off sales, but also that, bearing in mind the very large number of complaints you have received, all existing licences should be reviewed, and the off sales element revoked.  This would have the benefit of ensuring that the licence holders become responsible for ensuring that their customers remain on the premises with their drinks.  If they fail to comply with this then their licence could be withdrawn.

This way Calderdale Licensing would have more authority and control over the situation, rather than relying on the Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) you refer to, which seems utterly toothless.  The only PSPO notice I have seen in Hebden Bridge is located in Calder Holmes Park, and is entirely concerned with dog matters, not alcohol issues.

I trust you will re-open this complaint and address this matter.

Kind regards

Andrew Smith

From Mark Graham

Wednesday, 20 June 2018

Important and essential points not already mentioned:

  • Local Licensing Officer has clarified that alcohol sold for consumption off the premises must be sold in sealed containers.
  • And police have powers to stop people from drinking in public spaces, at their discretion when the drinking is causing disorder or antisocial behaviour.

Calderdale Council has published requirements for pavement cafes (defined as tables and chairs placed within a designated area on the public highway where food and drink is served – public highway being any public road/pavement/way), 15 pages including most significantly:

  • Permissions to use the highways for pavement cafés are granted by the issue of licences by the Council as the Highway Authority under Section 115E of the Highways Act 1980.
  • Tables and chairs placed on the highway without permission are an illegal obstruction and the Council will take enforcement action to remove such obstacles in such cases.
  • If you wish to serve alcohol at the pavement café you will need a Premises Licence, which includes the area of the proposed pavement café.
  • Noise, disturbance, smells or litter, which causes a nuisance to other premises, are not acceptable.  Amplified music will not be permitted unless specifically approved by the Head of Customer Services and Communications.
  • A physical barrier of approximately 1m in height must be provided to guide persons with disabilities safely around the area. 
  • Preparation and storage of food and drink must not be undertaken outside the normal premises.
  • The café area should be kept under supervision at all times of its operation and all customers should be seated at all times.
  • It is the licensee’s responsibility to ensure drinking and eating remain within the boundary of the pavement café. Consumption outside of the boundary of the pavement café will not be permitted.

Odd that the local HRTC councillors have not advised or commented – considering the number of complaints on this forum and Hebden Bridge facebook page - they know the rules? & have observed the disturbances and public disorder -  too friendly with the licencees or just too much trouble to intervene?

From Adrian Crowther

Thursday, 21 June 2018

While I am in agreement that "something needs to be done" regarding the overspill into the wider public areas, I'm not sure just what "anti social behaviour" there is. I am a regular visitor to our town's lovely pubs and have yet to see anything that resembles anti social behaviour.

There is an argument for disturbance on the busiest of days, but seeing as there's usually events and festivals on most weekends during the summer which can cause equal amounts of "disturbance" I'm not sure just how strong that argument is.

It is simply the pros and cons of living in a popular tourist town

From Cllr Sarah Courtney

Thursday, 21 June 2018

As has been mentioned above there are to be three days of action at the end of June. (See HebWeb events) I also agree that contacting the council directly, or the police, is a really good idea. 

I haven't commented before as: 1) I have been spending a lot of time being trained and inducted into the ways of being a Calderdale councillor and I barely have time to do much on social media - including looking at Hebweb (sorry!); 2) I, along with other councillors, have been involved in things behind the scenes. 

In addition to the days of action, this topic is firmly on the agenda for Hebden Royd Town Council and also the next Calder ward forum - Tues 17th July at 6.45pm Hope Baptist. (See HebWeb events)

Please do come along to this and encourage everyone else to do so if they have an interest in this topic or any other issues around the ward.

Thanks! Sarah

From Tom D

Thursday, 21 June 2018

Thanks for the update Sarah and great to hear from you. Glad to hear that there is work going on behind the scenes. Its one of those issues that will be very visible if the licence holders choose to ignore the pretty reasonable requests people have made. Many thanks

From Louise T

Saturday, 30 June 2018

As a former employee of the landlady of the Shoulder of Mutton, Lesley Wood, I can say that she is a responsible land lady and has been working very hard to resolve the issues raised.  That is, she has installed barriers to keep customers from overspilling into the square, she and her staff supervise the outside areas at all times to ensure customers eat and drink within the barriers.

Instead of hiding behind Hebweb, speak  to Lesley or her manager directly about your concerns. They are more than willing to listen and resolve issues.  Lesley loves Hebden Bridge and the community and only wants the best for the town and it's people  

From Julie C

Wednesday, 4 July 2018

For those who want to air this issue in the flesh rather than via the forum, this is topic 4 on the agenda for the local ward forum on 17th July, 6.30 for 6.45 start, side entrance to Hope Baptists on Hope St. Councillors and local police attend and any members of the local community who want to discuss this and other local matters. 

From Tom D

Tuesday, 10 July 2018

Feels to have been quite a lot better and more reasonable over the last few weekends. Is that right?

From Tom D

Monday, 16 July 2018

Scrap that. Saturday 4pm square was full of Shoulder of Mutton's drinkers, the nice table on the wavy steps occupied by drinkers from White Swan. And that nice little bench on the Bridge by drinkers from Old Gate.

So it seems that the low key educational visits from Council staff have had no impact. Whats next? What was the discussion like at the Town meeting a fortnight ago?  

From Henry Wiseman

Monday, 16 July 2018

Respectfully, I have never seen any improvement. People got a little excited about a strip of bunting and some low key consultation(s). I saw this as nothing other than a show of willing.

The day of the park incident, we walked into Hebden to be greeted by a memorial garden full of drinkers.... who had simply moved on from the park. We subsequently walked down Bridge Gate to be met with a huge overspill from Calums that extended over onto the car park wall. 

The White Swan...enough said, there was around 6 people sat outside plus 30-40 people drinking all the way down the wavy steps, people even sat on the river wall.

The Shoulder appeared to be more controlled, probably due to their more sizeable and controlled beer garden but there was at least 15 people through the square drinking, some even outside the bakers!.

And to boot, when walking back, it clearly appears that Vocation have obtained a licence to now extend their beer garden onto the Marina.

Railway trips to Hebden are here to stay, I strongly suggest that we get used to this throughout the summer months. The only proven way to stop this is to patrol with doormen, and can we imagine the fallout should this happen.

Don't get me wrong, we felt in no way intimidated, but in fairness, it all looked a little bit naff!.

Regards, Henry

From Sharon Slade

Friday, 20 July 2018

The ward forum meeting on Tuesday evening was well attended and many people spoke, all expressing their discontent at what's happening to our town.

However it seems there's no solution in sight. Licencing have no power except to issue licences, the police can only act if there's trouble. 

Sarah Courtney chaired the meeting well and is clearly prepared to do her best so I guess all we can do is keep the issue alive and hope that by next summer a new drinking destination has sprung up!

From Tom D

Wednesday, 15 August 2018

Sad to see that this has been ignored and forgotten now. I thought we were making a bit of voluntary progress. Steps and Town Square both pretty over run with drinkers last weekend.